Agent Orange and other things

Wally / Paul --

That was a good article. Glad it is circulating. Thanks Paul, for sending.

Having spent the last 40+ years as a biostatistician in the pharmaceutical industry and having analyzed several hundred clinical studies supporting new drug applications and new drug
maintenance (label claim defence), your point has interest.


The questions for the moment are these:

-- are you CERTAIN that age is "the variable" of interest OR is it "time since exposure"?

-- have you separated the data that you've counted in terms of enlisted/officer? The reason is
officers usually got to the theater at age 21/22 or later, whereas enlisted folks may have been
in theater at ages 18/19/20? Do members have "an age factor" or is it "time since exposure"?
What happens to the officer corps as opposed to the enlisted corps? Are they different?


Some of the below may be well-known to you and others. As a Blue Water Sailor, there are a couple of difficult issues that matter:

-- maps of sprayed areas are available. Locations of cities relative to these sprayed areas are available.

-- climatic data are available for the areas where ships were either on the gunline or in the Gulf.

-- prevailing wind data is also available and some are captured.

-- there's a VERY GOOD STUDY of ocean currents written by the Woods Hole Institute of Oceanography. This paper studies the South China Sea. The author is reworking some details to be able to put them on a two-dimensional display to provide to the Dept of Vets Affairs (DVA).

-- one "hiccup" is the water distillation procedure. DVA refused to accept or consider the Royal Australian Navy (RAN) study because it was not published in a refereed journal. I have a great deal of trouble with this because we're talking kitchen chemistry -- not rocket science. Fact: Agent Orange (AO) is insoluble and will not 'go into solution'. However, when a chemical is carried in water and that water is boiled the chemical we're discussing will settle on the walls of evaporator chambers. The next time those evaps are filled and boiled to create steam, the chemical on the sides of the container is concentrated, repeat often until your evaps are taken down, cleaned and demineralized?! Blue Water Sailors were -- just like the folks in the Brown Water Navy or ""in country"" -- inhaling Agent Orange in the air, consuming the water distilled (single distillation potable water) in iced tea, coffee, bug juice, you name it. We were wearing uniforms/skivvies washed in it. Sleeping on sheets washed in it. We showered/shaved in this same water. To think Blue Water Sailors escaped AO simply by being at sea is patently absurd!!!

How does all this apply? The runoff from sprayed areas washed into rivers which went to sea. Going to sea there was a 'plume' of contamination carried into the ocean. Then showing the direction and rate of travel toward 'gunline stations' or the 'Tonkin Gulf fleet on Yankee Station' matters. It is not quite time to pull the trigger on this since there are limited odds that anything will happen while the present Congress
is in session this week. Best to prepare for the new Congress in Jan 09.

The National Veterans Legal Service Program (go to nvlsp.org) has filed suit to ensure a full-court review.
They object to the CoA opinion which was based on a tribunal (three judge) decision.

The Blue Water Sailors' Tale Getting Told in NC is great news. However, seems to me this must be supplemented by everyone contacting three members of Congress -- your two senators and a representative and alert them that DVA and the Court of Appeals (CoA) decision is an attempt to rewrite history by insisting now -- 40+ years after the fact -- that those with ""boots on the ground"" (in current vernacular) are the only ones eligible for presumptive claims of all the various diseases the DVA has declared presumptive is an abrogation of their responsibilities -- for budgetary reasons apparently. It is more than just a little difficult to requalify since the Republic of Vietnam no longer exists. ...and keep in mind some prominent Vietnam veterans were also reclassified as Vietnam-Era Veterans: Senator McCain, former Senator (and Admiral) Jeremiah Denton (84 - honored 9/19/08 at POW Day in CA, author of When Hell Was in Session [c]1982) and VADM James B Stockdale, (died in 2005 at age 81, former president of the Naval War College and The Citadel) -- they were imprisoned in the Hanoi Hilton NOT in the Republic of Vietnam?!

The only real solution to this situation is legislative. Congress must act and it must be signed at the White House. Congress must step up and direct DVA to restore full rights to holders of the Vietnam Service Medal (VSM).


You may know all this. What may not be known is there is a Yahoo! Group focusing on this issue --
BWS_tonkingulfyachtclub. All are invited, no charges, no fees... To join:
1. Go to a Yahoo! home page
2. Find the word "Groups" in the box just below the word Yahoo! Click on "Groups".
3. You'll be asked for a Group of interest -- enter bws_tonkingulfyachtclub
You'll also be asked for a Yahoo! ID and a password. When these are entered you'll be asked for your
favorite email address -- when you enter an address any notes/messages come directly to your inbox.
4. When you see the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club patch you can click on 'files' to read the holdings, click on
'photos' to check the collection. Use the "back arrow" on your browser to change between selections.
5. When finished, you can click on "home" to escape.
More will be added in the near future...

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